Christian or Before?

[Chad]

Romans 7:7-25
There are some different views, by some great scholars, whether or not Paul is referring to belivers or non-believers when discussing the fact that "i do what i do not want to do..."
where do you find yourself falling down on this issue

[Mike Miller]

Good question. First, the issues, followed by my conclusions:

Is this the situation of a believer or a non believer?

1. Some say it's an unbeliever's condition, specifically because of verses 14, 18, and 24, which seem to indicate the condition of a lost person. See also 6:2, 6, 7, 18, and 22. This is the position of Douglas Moo and the Early Fathers.

2. Some say this is the condition of the believer. In verses 15, 19, and 21, he hates doing evil (do unbelievers?). Verse 18 speaks of nothing good in the flesh, but not the whole person. Verses 21-22 speak of a desire to do good. Compare to 3:11. Tom Schreiner and John MacArthur hold to this position, as did the Puritans, and most of the Protestant Reformers.

I personally think it is a description of the condition of a bleliever because of the strenght of the abovementioned argument as well as passages like Romans 6:12-13 which admonish believers not to sin. Why would we need constant admonishment if we weren't constantly tempted?

Another question is whether this is describing a hypothetical carnal, or immature, Christian or if Paul is speaking of himself. Martyn Lloyd-Jones (one of my heroes) believes that it is not Paul, but an illustration of a carnal Christian.

I, along with most of those who think this is about a Christian, believe Paul is sharing his heart. See also 1 Corinthians 15:9, Ephesians 3:8, and 1 Timothy 1:12-15 to see Paul's humble estimation of himself.

[Mike Miller]

Well, from what I can tell, someone posted on this thread in Chinese, and it kind of sent the discussion board into a very weird mode. I had to delete those posts. If you can re-post in English, give it a try.