Post by Mike Miller on Feb 12, 2008 17:27:22 GMT -5
Earlier, Terri's sister e-mailed her the following (you'll have to follow the link):
Dear Sister,
Could you ask Mike if this is what he thinks? Is it close? Do Christians in general know these distinctions?
www.gotquestions.org/Gods-will.html
Here is my answer:
First of all, most Christians do not know these distinctions, though I have heard of Christians speak of God’s “perfect will” versus his “permissive will,” meaning that God doesn’t always want certain things to happen, but he allows them to happen and then does what he has to in order to work things out. I adamantly oppose that view—that God has to make adjustments based on what we do.
As for the article in question, while I am in agreement with some of it, I not only disagree with it in its entirety, but the author is not in line with the majority of reformed thinkers (I hold to a reformed theology—I can explain that if I need to). I have personally never come across the concept of three wills of God, nor do I agree with the totality of his argument.
Essentially, I am definitely of the conviction that there are two wills in God. Different labels have been used—sovereign will and moral will; efficient will and permissive will; revealed will and secret will; decretive will and perceptive will—but I prefer the terminology of Jonathan Edwards: “will of command” and “will of decree.” In a nutshell, the clear testimony of Scripture is that everything works in accordance with the will of God (Ephesians 1:11, for example). At the same time, we know that God has commanded certain things which are disobeyed. Therefore, how can it be that God “wills” that we do not murder, but his “will” was for Christ to be murdered? Well, it isn’t too difficult to see that either God is schizophrenic or He has two different wills. The simple solution, not only logically, but based on the testimony of Scripture (compare Exodus 20:13 with Acts 2:23; 4:27-28 as one of many examples), is that God wills and causes everything to come to pass (will of decree), but that for these things to come to pass, people must frequently violate his rules (will of command). The Ten Commandments, for example, are part of God’s will of command—the things which He says do and don’t do. His will of decree is what actually does happen in all circumstances.
So, the next question is whether this means that God is the author of sin. The answer is no. Humans are the authors of sin, and we are inclined (in our unregenerate states) to be absolutely wicked. Every sin we do, we do it because we want to. God simply uses—intentionally—our willful desires for His purposes. It was both God and Pharaoh who hardened Pharaoh’s heart (see Exodus 4:21 and 8:15), and Pharaoh was guilty of sin, because it was simply the natural inclination of his heart. It was both God and the brothers who sent Joseph to Egypt, and they both did so intentionally, but the brothers were sinful in that they only did what they wanted to do (see Genesis 45:5-8 and 50:20). God didn’t’ simply “allow” the people to kill Jesus; He ordained it. He didn’t just “let” Pharaoh harden his own heart; He made it happen. He didn’t simply “permit” Joseph’s brothers to sell Him into slavery and by His great intelligence figure out a positive outcome; He was the Author of the entire event. Yet, the Jews, Pharaoh, and the brothers were all guilty of their own sin, because they did what they really wanted to do.
I find it interesting that the resource recommended at the end of the article is J. I. Packer’s Knowing God. Since I’m pretty familiar with Packer, I was intrigued, so I pulled Knowing God off the shelf and re-perused it looking for the concept of three wills of God. I didn’t even see where he discussed the two wills of God. However, the book is really good, and I commend it to everyone. A much better article on this subject is John Piper’s “Are There Two Wills in God?” which appears as an appendix in the book The Pleasures of God, by John Piper and as a chapter in the book Still Sovereign, edited by Thomas Schreiner and Bruce Ware. I highly recommend both of those books. However, you can also see the article online, but you have to get one of the books to get the footnotes, and some of the best material is in the very lengthy footnotes. You can find it here: www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/1995/1580_Are_There_Two_Wills_in_God/
Dear Sister,
Could you ask Mike if this is what he thinks? Is it close? Do Christians in general know these distinctions?
www.gotquestions.org/Gods-will.html
Here is my answer:
First of all, most Christians do not know these distinctions, though I have heard of Christians speak of God’s “perfect will” versus his “permissive will,” meaning that God doesn’t always want certain things to happen, but he allows them to happen and then does what he has to in order to work things out. I adamantly oppose that view—that God has to make adjustments based on what we do.
As for the article in question, while I am in agreement with some of it, I not only disagree with it in its entirety, but the author is not in line with the majority of reformed thinkers (I hold to a reformed theology—I can explain that if I need to). I have personally never come across the concept of three wills of God, nor do I agree with the totality of his argument.
Essentially, I am definitely of the conviction that there are two wills in God. Different labels have been used—sovereign will and moral will; efficient will and permissive will; revealed will and secret will; decretive will and perceptive will—but I prefer the terminology of Jonathan Edwards: “will of command” and “will of decree.” In a nutshell, the clear testimony of Scripture is that everything works in accordance with the will of God (Ephesians 1:11, for example). At the same time, we know that God has commanded certain things which are disobeyed. Therefore, how can it be that God “wills” that we do not murder, but his “will” was for Christ to be murdered? Well, it isn’t too difficult to see that either God is schizophrenic or He has two different wills. The simple solution, not only logically, but based on the testimony of Scripture (compare Exodus 20:13 with Acts 2:23; 4:27-28 as one of many examples), is that God wills and causes everything to come to pass (will of decree), but that for these things to come to pass, people must frequently violate his rules (will of command). The Ten Commandments, for example, are part of God’s will of command—the things which He says do and don’t do. His will of decree is what actually does happen in all circumstances.
So, the next question is whether this means that God is the author of sin. The answer is no. Humans are the authors of sin, and we are inclined (in our unregenerate states) to be absolutely wicked. Every sin we do, we do it because we want to. God simply uses—intentionally—our willful desires for His purposes. It was both God and Pharaoh who hardened Pharaoh’s heart (see Exodus 4:21 and 8:15), and Pharaoh was guilty of sin, because it was simply the natural inclination of his heart. It was both God and the brothers who sent Joseph to Egypt, and they both did so intentionally, but the brothers were sinful in that they only did what they wanted to do (see Genesis 45:5-8 and 50:20). God didn’t’ simply “allow” the people to kill Jesus; He ordained it. He didn’t just “let” Pharaoh harden his own heart; He made it happen. He didn’t simply “permit” Joseph’s brothers to sell Him into slavery and by His great intelligence figure out a positive outcome; He was the Author of the entire event. Yet, the Jews, Pharaoh, and the brothers were all guilty of their own sin, because they did what they really wanted to do.
I find it interesting that the resource recommended at the end of the article is J. I. Packer’s Knowing God. Since I’m pretty familiar with Packer, I was intrigued, so I pulled Knowing God off the shelf and re-perused it looking for the concept of three wills of God. I didn’t even see where he discussed the two wills of God. However, the book is really good, and I commend it to everyone. A much better article on this subject is John Piper’s “Are There Two Wills in God?” which appears as an appendix in the book The Pleasures of God, by John Piper and as a chapter in the book Still Sovereign, edited by Thomas Schreiner and Bruce Ware. I highly recommend both of those books. However, you can also see the article online, but you have to get one of the books to get the footnotes, and some of the best material is in the very lengthy footnotes. You can find it here: www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/1995/1580_Are_There_Two_Wills_in_God/