1 Timothy 2:13-15

[kurtmanteufel]

Dr. Miller,

I am having difficulty grasping the exact meaning of these verses, and I just don't want to misinterpret.

Why is the order of Adam and Eve's creation and initial transgression relevant to biblical patriarchy?

If you could re-write the meaning of vs. 15 literally, how would you write it?

Thanks,
Kurt

[Mike Miller]

Hey, Kurt. You have chosen to ask about one of the most difficult passages in all the Bible. I'm glad.

First, why does Paul ground his prohibition against women teaching men or having authority over men in the church in the created order of Adam and Eve? It seems that Paul his bolstering his position by clarifying that gender roles are not merely a matter of culture or preference; they are rooted in creation. God created man and woman differently and assigned them different roles. This is so fixed by God that even the order in which the man and the woman were created was not without purpose. Therefore, one cannot argue today that Paul's instruction was only for a specific circumstance or a specific culture. This is a timeless principle.

Verse 15 is particularly difficult. I would translate it exactly as in the ESV: "Yet she will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control."

I am aware of at least 7 different interpretations of the verse. I won't go into every single position, but I'll speak in mainly general terms, concluding with what I think are the two most likely (though no interpretation is without its detractors). To begin with, some see this as saying that women will attain eternal salvation by having children. I actually attended a funeral once where the priest assured the family that the deceased woman was in heaven because she had children (he even called the grandchildren "bonus points"). This position would contradict the entire biblical teaching that salvation is by grace through faith, so it can be rejected pretty easily. Some see the verse as meaning that faithful women will have their lives spared when giving birth. However, in addition to this not being supported by any other biblical teaching, sometimes faithful women die during child birth. I also dismiss this position. Some of the other positions are variants of these two.

One of the more viable interpretations has to do with the context in which women were not to aspire to the roles of men in the church--namely pastors and teachers of men. Instead, when they embrace their biblical roles, which include marriage and the rearing of children, they are proving the genuineness of their faith--the reality of their salvation. Their salvation is also demonstrated (as for all believers) when they continue, or abide, in faith, love, and holiness with self-control. In other words, a mark of salvation of women is the joyful and faithful fulfilling of the divinely appointed role of motherhood.

Another interpretation that I find legitimate is rooted both in context and grammar. If you look at the ESV translation, as opposed to the NIV or the NAS, you will see a more literal rendering. Notice that there is a change from singular (she) to plural (they), and the immediate context talks about Eve. Verse 14 talks about the Eve's fall into sin, and verse 15 says, "yet she will be saved." The interpretation, then, is that this is talking about Eve's salvation which comes through the birth of the Messiah. This interpretation is further legitimized when we consider Genesis 3:15, which is known as the protoevangelium, or "first Gospel" (in other words, the first indication of the Good News of Jesus). Here we read that Eve's offspring would ultimately defeat the enemy. Also, in 1 Timothy 2:15, the word "childbearing" in the original language is preceded by the definite article ("the"), perhaps indicating a specific birth. Therefore, this could mean that Eve will ultimately be saved by giving birth to the forerunner of the Messiah.

Then we have the shift from singular to plural. This indicates that it is through the birth of the Messiah that all can be saved. All those who have a sincere and abiding faith attain salvation through Jesus as well. So we see a transition from Eve to women in general, showing women the importance of their faith and obedience.

Though I am not dogmatic about my interpretation of verse 15, I think these last two are the most legitimate, and I lean toward the last one. And that is the short answer. Feel free to ask follow up question and to present alternate views.

[charliedale]

That interpretation makes sense to me too. Though I have little credentials to offer.

I became convinced of that interpretation from John Stott's commentary on 1 Timothy from the Bible Speaks Today series. It makes sense to me because Paul just mentioned the woman's role in the fall, and then he hastens to mention the woman's role in salvation (Mary giving birth to Messiah).

[kurtmanteufel]

Thank you Mike for such a great response and putting so much time into it! I'm sorry that I did not respond until now. I was vacationing and couldn't make it to a stable internet connection until I got home.

For vs. 2:13-14, I struggled understanding the connection for a while but I finally did get there after re-reading genesis 2&3 and searching for cross references and commentary. This is what I have found relevant:

God created Man first, from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. The woman was not formed until later that day, and was formed from the man, as a completion of his creation. 1 Corinthians 11:7-8 explains the significance of this:

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. For man is not from woman, but woman from man.

Also, before woman was created, God brought forth all of the creatures of the earth for him to name, to show him there was no suitable companion among them. This responsibility was given to Adam as part of his dominion over the earth before Eve was even created. Then when she was created, Adam named her, exercising his authority over her.

So that's half way there... The last half is harder for me, but it is in Gen 3. The serpent was cursed first, then Eve, then Adam- in order of their transgressions. But when God gets to Adam, his punishment is prefixed first by "Because you have heeded the voice of your wife." This suggests that Adam's initial transgression was neglecting his role as leader and following his wife's sin. Thus Eve was deceived by Satan, and Adam wasn't deceived (as Paul said in 1 Tim 2:14), but failed himself by failing to exercise his authority and submitting to his wife as her follower. I think this is the point Paul is trying to make. Please let me know what you think, Mike.

For vs. 2:15, after thinking for a while, and studying a few of the interpretations I found online, I was thinking the most likely thing that Paul meant was about perseverance; basically your first explanation, but, of course, I can't quite seem to spit out the words as eloquently as you did:

In other words, a mark of salvation of women is the joyful and faithful fulfilling of the divinely appointed role of motherhood.

I really don't see the merit behind other interpretations other than the two you mentioned. They either tell too long of a story and don't fit the context in an intuitive way and don't seem likely, or the words in the verse simply just don't seem to fit the interpretation.

This is my take on it at this point...

In the KJV "woman" in this chapter constantly changes tense:

vs. 9&10 - women
vs. 11 - the woman
vs. 12 - a woman
vs. 13 - Eve
vs. 14 - the woman
vs. 15 - she AND they

It seems to me that he is speaking generally about all women in vs. 9-12 and in the "they" in the second part of vs. 15. And he is referring directly to Eve in vs. 13-14. What is confusing is the "she" in vs. 15. It wouldn't be such a big deal, but "she" is saved through childbearing. To whoever "she" is, "childbearing" is obviously a pretty big deal...

"She" appears to be a substitute for Eve, but in the last half of the sentence Paul has used a totally new pronoun that appears to be a substitute for the same "woman" which leads me to think that Paul meant "she will be saved through childbearing" to be a general statement for all women.

The reason why I am thinking that way is I can't get my mind around the word "if". "If" denotes that the second part of the sentence is a requisite of the first. Why would Paul say that because of the perseverance of women, Eve is saved through the eventual birth of Christ?

To illustrate what I am trying to say, I'll write out the two reasonable alternatives:

1. All women will be saved through childbirth, if they (women) continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

2. Eve will be saved through childbirth, if all women continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

Unless the translation of the word "if" isn't accurate, I can't wrap my mind around "she" referring to Eve. But, alas, doesn't that conflict with the use of a singular pronoun in the first place? Also, as you pointed out, this also conflicts with the fact that "the childbirth" uses the definite article which apparently is inconsistent with the word to mean "the act of childbirth." Further, as you pointed out, the context is too close of a match for this not to be a reference to Gen 3:15-16. This verse is maddening...

Well, one explanation I found online, is that Eve can refer to Eve herself and all women plural simultaneously. It seems fitting from my perspective, but I have no gauge for how realistic this is.

Do you think there is there any merit to this theory?

[Mike Miller]

I would say there is merit to the theory, but I still lean in the direction of my original post. I will also say that you are thinking through this passage very well. I appreciate your excellent analytical mind. The bottom line, however, is that this is a really hard passage. I refer you to what Peter said about Paul's writings in 2 Peter 3:15-16:

And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.